Knuckey’s History

19th May 2003

(The names of some people in this interview have not been written for security reasons)

TS: Lot of old people been here, live around like all the longgrassers doing. Well that’s the same, they been live here, found it from Batchelor. They been travel and found it here and they live here, so they been recognized properly. So they been take em all the tin irons that they used to make a shed here. Old Major, Old Nugget, Old Willy Gaden, all that mob. Louise and all that Major family, Willy family — they used to be out in the college, Berrimah. So Bill Day found that mob and started to help that mob, and he did it. He built that house. Louise’s father was president then — Major Rankin.

And he was living on, before cyclone time, wandering around, up and down, nothing doing, back here.

We had just started to live here, came in from out station at Finnis River with my wife. We been live here and they started to recognize this place and they like to live here. Might be couple of days used to come around, talk to the old people, specially Old Major. Bill Day — yeah, he’s a nice bloke. Then oh, lots of people been coming in, Mudananga tribe live here. So, after a while still got a tin house we been live in before. Tin shed we made from collect at rubbish — not really house. And after a while we had a meeting with Bill Day and Jack Phillips. We’ll put a building, built that house.

We used to drink but no fighting, sometimes argue. When the cyclone been coming in we didn’t know, we just got shock that day. We just hang around collecting all the pie and cake and booze. We just sat down and talk, talk. Drunk people been lying down everywhere. And that Old fella went out with a bottle of wine, big bottle. He drink it himself before cyclone been coming in, before 6am I think. He wiped it out, we lost one old man. We couldn’t sleep, we just stand up, standing sleep — too cold. Everything this way been wet, cant do anything. Noone drinking, except Alec Garrawee — he drunk all night. He didn’t care about wind, cold. And after the cyclone, we all been spread. Some people been went away and I went back to Port Keats with my wife early morning. We found that old fella dead. Big mob log from foot to head. We been looking for him til we find him. Found him with bottle of wine, but he never cracked that bottle. And we run up there — one vehicle been running and help us to set that body right, take it. That’s Old Major’s father. Very, very strange hey. In cyclone time, wind. A lot of mess up here tree been die that morning we got up.

Very long not much trouble we been getting it from white fella. Used to go with Roy Kelly, Old man Buk Buk, Old Jaga boy and Old Fred Waters, Willy, Nugget Captain — they used to go with that welfare bloke to have meeting for this place, untill they been win. All the Old people been gone — only that old place there, number 1,2,3,4,5 house really.

When the ADF started here, I wasn’t here then. I went back home to Port Keats. I came back I seen all them house there. I been stop at Port Keats 4 or 5 years. Since I come back, because my wife’s father been pass away. That’s why I came back. Roy Kelly, all that old people been still alive. Normally every morning, sometime every week they come, need to have meeting here for housing, how people want to live here. But me never been work for CDEP, nothing.

DT(David Timber): There was only 2 town camps here at the time — One Mile and Knuckeys.

TS: Yeah, that’s it.

Q. Could anyone go to the meeting and talk?

TS: Used to be that what they did, now different. Very hard and we getting down poor too.

Not much help. They did help for these houses last year, that’s it. We don’t see much.

We sitting down, no help, no nothing.

Q. Do you feel that you could talk to ADF about what’s going on?

TS: Some time Brenie Valadian come round here. We ask them, he talk to them sometimes.

But we need something to do you know. We not gonna sit down, leave rubbish around laying everywhere. Maybe sometime we got a problem with water blocked up like that, or house damage like that. Sometimes workers come up and we tell that mob to fix it up house. ADF doing nothing much.

Town Camps must pay to use ADF Slasher

GM: We need this grass down cause a few of us nearly got bit by a snake. That little boy nearly got bit at the back of his house there.

Q. So why can’t you get that equipment from ADF?

GM: Because it’s not available. Bernie won’t supply it. He wont give it out, he cant give it out.

I don’t know what’s wrong. Like if Knuckeys Lagoon Community want to use equipment from ADF, CDEP has to give funding to ADF to use. I think he goes by the hour.

DT: I think he’s making his own rules that Bernie.

GM: CDEP offered, if they gave us the slashers, we’d provide the fuel, but Bernie didn’t want it that way — he wants a hiring fee as well. CDEP got no power over him what so ever. I think they’re too frightened to talk to him too.

Q. What’s ADF’s excuse for not cutting the big grass?

DT: Bernie was in the paper saying that his funding been cut, he can’t cut the grass. What a load of bullshit.

GM: Every other time when he gets the funding we been complain about the grass being long. but after that he just didn’t give a damn. He just telling everybody ‘haven’t got the money to run this thing to cut all this grass’. Well all the mowers we use for cutting this big grass are all buggered up. Just push mowers. We had one ride on but only small one that CDEP gave us for a loan for the big grass in the middle.

DT: He’s been selling a lot of things lately from ADF. Getting rid of stuff. Big steel lathe from the workshop — I saw it on the back of the truck. He probably sold it. Who knows what else he sold? And he’s saying he’s got no money for fuel? And here we got the grass growing right round the bloody houses. People not that silly. People keep saying to him, ‘just provide the tractor’. He still wont provide the slasher. He’s making all these excuses.

GM: If CDEP try and get stuff from him for this Community, they have to pay out of our Community’s funding. Half goes to ADF, half goes to CDEP. He’s saying that what goes to ADF is not enough.

Pay Deductions — Where does it go?

Q. What do you know you pay?

GM: We pay $15 for essential services, $10 for firewood and $10 toward community electricity and rent is $75. It was $35 last year and then he said it’s going up to $50.

After that $50 he came back again. He’d changed his mind and said $75 rent a fortnight.

It’s per person in each house, so however many people in that house have to pay $75 each.

They automatically deduct it from CDEP pay. I got all my slips here. Sometimes he doesn’t give those figures to CDEP, because some of those figures we look for on CDEP pay slip, it doesn’t add up to the money we know is missing.

I said to F at CDEP we not going to pay rent! Coz we’re not sure if IHANT collecting the money or ADF. We don’t know who suposed to be collecting the money. Now if Bernie is collecting the money, we don’t know where it’s gone, might be in is pocket? F said "no you mob got to pay rent or you mob get kicked out." She kept on saying like that. I think really hard for that one. I just told her we should just dead stop every deduction out of our CDEP money and then we get everything right — we know who its paying to, who’s in charge of every bits and pieces that we paying money for. Then we’d be certain, and that we’d get the service that we are paying for.

Q. What is essential service?

GM: That’s just for the water and maintenance which they come and fix up, leaking tap or power switch broken. That sort of thing, something wrong with stove, rubbish.

Q. How long does it take to come and fix it up?

GM: Oh well, whenever they feel like it. When those (ADF) workers come here to do something we just walk over and tell them. They {rubbish collection] don’t come on time now like they used to, regular. Might be Wednesday and Friday. They don’t do that anymore. They’ll just come anytime, anyday. He won’t let you know what time. Might be a couple of weeks then you’ll just see them picking up rubbish. He was complaining before that — we shouldn’t burn the rubbish in the drums, but these dogs tip it over. Can’t be picking up all the rubbish all the time. We battling as it is.

DT: We used to burn the rubbish all the time and he never said anything — just now.

These things need to be investigated by the relevant people. About power and water mainly.

How much is being paid and taken out from CDEP for pay toward ADF’s house as rent.

There needs to be an investigation there — somebody has to look into it.

Q. Are you getting firewood?

TS: Used to be before but not now. No, finish.

What about young people and training?

TS: Nothing.

Q. So people never been able to approach ADF, learn how to drive or get a job with ADF to help look after their Community?

TS: Nothing. None at all.

DT: I came here after 1975 after I met my wife, to live here for a while. Us mob hey, I never saw any training towards any young people round here, even work for ADF. Maybe one or two people from town camps but not much really. Only outsiders used to get work.

GM: We tried suggesting it. Some fella there, educated you know. They’ll pick up quick, learn quick. But they reackon he wont give job to Aboriginal people. We tried to ask him to train someone to be in the office, maybe just watch that office lady work and pick up and maybe do training some time at Batchelor. But he said they couldn’t do that. We asked him in 2001. Even CDEP liason job, go out with Dave or Dean as trainee. Maybe then the Community can take over when those boys got the training and experience you know? But they said they haven’t got enough money for it. Some offered volunteer work, still he won’t take it. They just tell us not to go round ask Bernie cause he’ll say no, just drop it there.

Uprgade of houses.

GM: You were here that time we had that meeting here old man? With that ATSIC mob?

When they tell us for them houses they going to renew them and put new houses.

TS: Yeah.

GM: But then that was only one talk we had with ATSIC mob.

TS: That’s it.

GM: All that mob when they signing they didn’t come out to us like how we want that house. Everybody wanted it to be brick because of that cyclone last time. They didn’t get told it was going to be the same - iron house. They didn’t talk with anybody - designing of the rooms, the colour of the tiles, nothing.

Q When was the first time you saw the design for the renovated house at Knuckeys?

GM: When they started to rip it down. One bloke come round, he said ‘I’m just checking where we going to put the new sewage". I said something about this house and he said ‘Don’t say you haven’t seen the design?’ He took out a blueprint and showed us.

Q. What did you think about the design?

GM: We felt really left out. I mean we’re the ones that live in that house. We’re the ones who should have a little bit of a say in how we want to live. You know we got kids, we got grandchildren and plus we got a lot of old people here. That house over there is not even big enough. It’s really narrow them rooms. Wheelchair camp really narrow.

Q. Have they got the wheelchair access?

GM: No That’s what I mean. We should have got together and talked about each house.

What I was thinking about wheelchair, is that he’s got to make a ramp for her to go up and a little thing on the toilet to hold when she goes to have a shower. No rails, no nothing. People have to lift her up off the floor or sometimes she has to crawl in the shower. That was it. He just told us there’s going to be 3 new house, 4 going to be renovated. You mob got until next week to move out and all the blokes just come in and straight away worked.

DT: The house we’re living in down the camp, One Mile Dam — Near the doorway there, there was supposed to be a toilet built, and shower — like these houses. But Bernie told them mob who was building it ‘don’t worry about it, just cover it.’ There is supposed to be a self contained toilet within the house. But Bernie said leave it cause their was an ablution block right outside my house. Bernie saved a lot of money from cutting corners. That’s what happened to these Knuckeys Lagoon houses — they weren’t built to design. Even the sceptics. That’s just some of the things Bernie’s doing, cutting corners to save money.

That needs to be looked at.

GM: Then again, what about if Bernie Valadian reads this? He might come around and say ‘ Oh alright, I know you mob been having meeting.’ What’s going to happen? Like, I’m just asking, what’s going to happen? We going to get supported on that? I know he won’t have the right to kick us out because we got all that tenancy agreement we signed through ADF or IHANT?. But lot of people scared of him, think he will kick them out if they talk story.

ADF worker told us he don’t like meetings without him knowing. Say like this meeting now. He finds we had the meeting here, he get really angry. He don’t like private meetings. We had one meeting with that bloke for training for forklift. He got really angry with us and again the ADF worker told us next time we want to have a meeting we have to call him up and let him know first.

Q. Some people living in the old houses here?

GM: Yeah. They getting painted up, from us mob. We doing this thing, going with paint mob from CDEP. They bring paint out and usually the boys, they clean up, paint em up. ADF didn’t do that for us or CDEP. We did it ourselves.

GM: We wanted power cards, not this main electricity. I don’t know how many times we where explaining to Bernie time and time again. These old people they don’t know how to save money. When their payday come they bookdown. When you got power card, they know you have to buy it, it’s easy. They go and buy $10 or $20 and put it in. But this other power goes on and on and on and next minute they realise power cut off and they got no money because sometimes they bookup too much. "Bernie",. I said, "why don’t you start this side and can you just start with the old people and that block?" The people that came to check the block said ‘Yeah, they can do it". But Bernie told us that they couldn’t do it. He said that every house had to be renovated first.

DT: Noone in these Communities have any say. If this is what the people want, he seem to override what the people say. They just don’t have any powers.

Q. How do you want to see your communities run?

GM: Community Council from each town camp meet up every 2-3 months — let leaders talk to community first, you know, ideas and suggestions from community members and take it to the big meeting then talk about it here, and like maybe they say yes, think that’s a good idea, no. Community members from each town camp.

DT: We’d like any suggestions from ATSIC too. This ADF been looking after 4 town camps, 1 Mile Dam, Knuckeys, 15 Mile and Adelaide River. It should stay in the hands of the people who are running the whole thing or even find somebody to run it. Because ADF got the equipment there, still doing the same thing like it’s always been except nother mob people running it, different people, committee members from each camp cept under another name maybe.

Q: Bernie Valadian, what is his job?

DT: What I know is Bernie was supposed to be working for the people, look after the interests of the people and and not the other way round. But ever since ADF was formed, it’s always been Bernie doing this for the people and the people is doing what Bernie wanted them to do. He’d have all the say of what goes on in the community. He hires and fires whoever he wants. He’s been just a one man show and noone’s been able to say anything against him during the past, even if you were a member on in the committee, he’d have you kicked out of the committee, voted off or kicked out be getting the others to vote against you. Not that you vote so much, he’s manipulative and the way he gets other people on the committee to sort of agree with him to get rid of this bloke, he’s sort of cunning in like that. He’s very good at that.

Signing for tucka

GM: You know when he brings them tucka, we sign the paper. Might be he take em out of wages hey? That’s the one now we might miss him. Whatever he give you, one bread, might be one tea leaf, chicken and you gonna sign for it. Even one little packet of sausage, one bread - we sign.

Q: What about the food voucher?

GM: That’s different. Even if he gives you that food voucher, you got to sign. We want to know what he’s doing, Maybe that’s where our money’s going, maybe our money’s gone missing there. Each camp is different sheets of paper they sign, they all got to sign and blankets, you sign. We would like to know about everything that goes on. He reckon he just keep it for reference or something. We try to ask CDEP mob but they don’t know what’s going on. Maybe for his record hey so they can get more funding.

DT: He’s selling things out of ADF.

GM: Well, he going to leave everyone broke. We need it,investigation to be done quick, he’s been doing it over the years slowly slowly. He got it where he want it now. If he walks out he’ll just walk out just like that.

I been told from the old DAA days (Department Aboriginal Affairs) all the old stuff he used to have there, I think he’s getting rid of. ATSIC or whoever it is, maybe the fraud squad should check it out. That’s Aboriginal money for the camps. Noone likes him anymore. A lot of people over the years since ADF started been trying to get rid of him, from what I been told over the years. But Bernie was somehow recognized by the government of the day, for when he used to work for the lands branch, he got the nod and this other aboriginal fella got knocked out.

GM: He’s slowing things down. We’d like to see this place up and running more better than what it was before; we want to have fun like stuff for the kids here, recreation and all that stuff. Even BJ, the fella that was here, he tried and tried to get a playground for the kids asking ADF to fund it, but they told him he had to do it himself. You see these kids nowadays here. They just go straight for ganja now, drink, coz they got nothing to do, might be weekend programs or holiday programs, you know, get somebody come here, take them out for holiday, give parents a break.

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